In the previous article in this series critiquing Timothy Jay Schwab's doctrine of the afterlife I looked at the meaning of the Greek word translated sleep and death. We saw that the word means literal sleep or metaphorical death depending on the context. There are also two other words, one which means sleep and only sleep and one which means death and only death with no metaphorical meaning for either. His challenge to show that sleep does not mean literal sleep was well met and I showed how disingenuous Tim is in his usage of those words. I also looked at the chambers mentioned in Enoch. Tim says there are three but Enoch says there are four. The spirits in the fourth chamber will never leave that place.
In this article I will briefly analyze and dismiss a few of Tim's videos in this series which have either no pertinent arguments in them for the subject at hand or no arguments at all. Let's start this review off by dismissing video 5 in this series.
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Did A Witch Raise The Prophet Samuel From The Dead? Where Do We Go? Part 5 Answers In 2nd Esdras 23E |
Did a witch raise the prophet Samuel from the dead? Tim says no she brought up a demon. The point of this video is to reinforce Tim's teaching that the dead are asleep in chambers in the earth and no one can bring them up except God. Therefore, she brought up a demon. This video is done away with in two precise slices. First of all the context of the entire story does not warrant us to believe anything except that Samuel was indeed brought up from the dead and not an impostor demon. How? You might as well explain how Balaam's Ass spoke or how Jesus made the blind see using spit and dirt. The how does not concern us here. It is the what that matters and she clearly brought up Samuel from the dead.
The fact that King Saul thought Samuel could be brought up from the dead shows with certainty that the Israelites did not have a conception of death as being a state of unconscious and inactive sleep. Rather it shows that they thought the spirits of dead men were aware and active in the afterlife. Thus this narrative contradicts Enoch's stories of the four chambers for the dead and Tim's whole scheme that the dead are asleep and inactive in one of those chambers. It is one more clue among many that Enoch was not written by the Patriarch Enoch before the flood but by someone in the Second Temple period of the 2nd century BC.
Second of all the Book of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus says Samuel prophesied after his death. Tim believes that Sirach is scripture.
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| Did the Book of Sirach Find the Rivers From Eden? |
4:23 It was the temple priests they exiled to Qumran who kept scripture and guess what? They kept Sirach as scripture as well and it was found there. It was canon from the only group qualified and ordained to say so.
13 Samuel, the prophet of the Lord, beloved of his Lord, established a kingdom, and anointed princes over his people.14 By the law of the Lord he judged the congregation, and the Lord had respect unto Jacob.15 By his faithfulness he was found a true prophet, and by his word he was known to be faithful in vision.16 He called upon the mighty Lord, when his enemies pressed upon him on every side, when he offered the sucking lamb.17 And the Lord thundered from heaven, and with a great noise made his voice to be heard.18 And he destroyed the rulers of the Tyrians, and all the princes of the Philistines.19 And before his long sleep he made protestations in the sight of the Lord and his anointed, I have not taken any man's goods, so much as a shoe: and no man did accuse him.20 And after his death he prophesied, and shewed the king his end, and lifted up his voice from the earth in prophecy, to blot out the wickedness of the people.
How did Samuel prophesy after he was dead? That is clearly a reference to the witch of Endor calling him up. This passage decisively destroys video 5. This passage is either Scripture or it is not. Even if Tim does as usual and claim this passage is corrupt that does not solve the problem at all. That would be an unprovable ad hoc fallacy.
Video 7 is easily disposed of as well.
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Is There a Difference Between Soul & Spirit? Where Do We Go? Part 7 Answers In 2nd Esdras 23G |
2:37 But why the obsession with the number three in theology in this day and age? I mean they teach us there is a Trinity you know, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Well that is a term never found in the Bible. It's just not there. Uh, don't care what you think whether Trinity or not Trinity there is no word Trinity in the Bible, period. It's just not there.
Um, the Bible also does not ever equate the Holy Spirit as the other two. It's just not there either. Important, no doubt, and understanding their roles all three is what's really important not polarizing ridiculously stupid arguments. "Oh you're this, oh you're that label, oh you're that label," you go label whatever you want. Go do it in the corner, um, because that's where we put dunces on this channel. They will not be commenting. If you watch 22 Kinds of Creation we cover this psalm as creation in scripture was that of two not three. The Holy Spirit was there but we are given no role for Him and no equation to the other two. It's just not there. There are two creators Elohim a plural word meaning heavenly being and before the angels were created there were only two Elohim and that was the Father and the Son who did the creating.
Does Tim not understand that the way he talks he comes off as a polytheistic when he says that there are two gods, Father and Son? But then he will say that the Father and Son are equated which is modalist language. Yet Tim teaches they are separate. This is why a correct doctrine of who the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are is vital and important. God is three persons sharing one essence or nature. Anything less and you are going to go off into serious error and have a total misunderstanding of who God is and the function of each person.
Saying that the word Trinity is not in the Bible is a garbage argument against the Trinity. It is no argument at all. Tim also says that there is no universe because the word is not found in the Bible.
30:30 Now the word universe is not even actually a Bible word or concept. Think about that. Yahuah is never referred to in scripture as the Lord of the universe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H4dBijkqfM
Tim literally says "they" teach these things because they want to open up their third eye.
20:52 What we are seeing is the infusion of new age doctrine into these church doctrines. It is the new age community that separates the spirit from the soul. Again, we call that demon possession. They teach the mind is as powerful as the spirit or even more so as you can develop a third eye, even, where your soul can have the power, you know of a seer or whatever. like you know Josephus and the Pharisees in fact. Yeah, that is similar because Kabbalah, all the same. Like the Greek philosophers. Don't let your church inject new age garbage because that's what they're doing with this word soul.
This follows from a long section where Tim explains Hebrews 4:12 by saying the joints and marrow are the same thing.
16:14 This is firmly figurative language there's no doubting that. I mean it comes out and tells you that it is not intended to express a reality. But you don't walk around without your both joints and marrow do you? Uh, you won't be if you don't have them. In the function of joints and marrow ,uh, we're looking at bones here, okay? Joints are joining bones together and marrow runs through the bone so you need both. In other words the two are one in terms of bone. They function together. Without either good luck using your bones you will not.
However, the point of this scripture is to pinpoint things which are not truly separate and cannot be separated, really. I mean that's the point. You will not use your bones without both joints and marrow. You need both. You will not live eternally without your soul and spirit yet you do not need your current body do you? No you don't. We won't, that returns to dust. We receive new bodies but not a new soul and not a new spirit which are the same thing. They have to be.
I usually like your videos however trying to say the inside of the bone is the same as the joint on the outside of the bone connecting other bones. One provides movement and one provides structure. They are not the same, but are part of the same system. The spirit binds the soul to the body, the spirit is the breath of life. We do not raincarnated, we die and go to Sheol and the spirit returns to the maker. John the Baptist had the spirit of Elijah, so if the soul is the spirit then John the Baptist wasnt a new person, he would have been a reincarnated Elijah.
No, the spirit is not the same as the soul. John the Baptist had the soul of John the Baptist, but the spirit that brought life to Elijah also was imparted on John the Baptist to bring his body to life.
It's complete nonsense and since Tim cannot bring himself to deal with actual arguments for the Trinity it is proper to dismiss this video entirely and focus instead on video 6 and Tim's discussion of the soul and spirit.
Maybe one day he will make a video where he actually does deal with arguments for the Trinity rather than setting up straw men. Literally no Christian believes in the Trinity because of occult numerology. Such nonsense betrays a total ignorance of Christian theology and history.
If Tim really cared to understand the Trinity he would read the Cappadocians and their treatises against the Arians and the Eunomians because it is their views of the Trinity which were adopted as dogma at the 2nd Council of Nicea. Not long after the Western Church inserted the Filioque into the confession. Historically this is what led to the schism between the church East and West. I am quite sure Tim knows nothing of any of that history because he sure does not understand even the basics of Trinitarian doctrine especially as it relates to the Person of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Likewise video 8 can also be scrapped for the same reasons. Video 8 is Tim's answer as to why the Church does not believe in soul sleep as he does. It's all because the Church incorporated the Egyptian Book of the Dead into their doctrines.
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Egyptian Book of the Dead. Origin of Church Doctrine on Judgment? Part 8 Answers In 2nd Esdras 23H |
13:25 But let's go to the source, their source, the Egyptian Book of the Dead to see what it says. Let's be clear because some get easily confused or so they wish to be in ignorance at times in order to make accusation of course. Uh, you know we teach the Bible and this is the opposite but we cover this because most churches today are teaching this doctrine right out of the Egyptian Book of the Dead and not from the Bible. They're missing it completely. So, for anyone wishing to show disgust by all means we certainly will. But how about you make sure you get our position right and realize that position is not the opposite because we get accused every time we do a video like this in that manner.
15:10 There are several ways you can read this Egyptian Book of the Dead. One is by E.A. Wallis Budge. Uh, he has put out a lot of different occult writings, indeed, uh he just loves them. But we're going to stick to a paraphrase for the sake of time since this is a YouTube video. Accounts differ in some and we're not going to cover "well this one says, but this one says, but this one says" who cares? Generally they are in agreement and all serve as the origin of this church doctrine. That's our point. Uh, which certainly does not come from the Bible and that's what we're getting at. We're going to use worldhistory.com, The Egyptian Afterlife
There are a number of problems in these two excerpts from this video. First of all Tim says those who criticize him need to get his position right. That is laughable because this entire video is him getting the position of the Catholic Church wrong! In fact, he does not once cite any official Catholic doctrine. Instead he cites from an internet article ABOUT the Egyptian Book of the Dead rather than FROM the Egyptian Book of the Dead. That means he is not even familiar with the book from which he claims the Church gets its doctrine of the afterlife.
Tell us Tim, how the heck would the contents of this book somehow slip into the Church's teaching? He NEVER TELLS US!! He just makes accusation after unsubstantiated accusation. Does he not know that the Egyptian book of the Dead was WRITTEN IN HIEROGLYPHICS!! Nobody knew how to read Egyptian until the discovery of the Rosetta Stone in 1799! There is no way possible this unreadable text could have been read by any Christian and incorporated into Christian doctrine. Is Tim really that much of a moron or does he think his audience is too stupid to understand that?
The existence of the Book of the Dead was known as early as the Middle Ages, well before its contents could be understood. Since it was found in tombs, it was evidently a document of a religious nature, and this led to the widespread but mistaken belief that the Book of the Dead was the equivalent of a Bible or Qur'an
Everything in this video is just so blatantly false there is no proper way to deal with it except to throw it in the garbage. How can this man claim to have gone to seminary and been a minister for over 30 years and not know why Christians believe the things they do? This nonsense about the occult creeping into the Church and influencing her doctrines in any way is provably false if one would take the time to read the writings of the Church Fathers and especially the dogmatic definitions of the ecumenical councils. I have done this and I cannot pour years of study into one article. It is not possible. Tim needs to take his head out of the Dead Sea Scrolls and actually learn Christian doctrine. There is 2000 years of it.
The reason the Church believes that after death one is conscious and experiences either torments or joys is because the Bible teaches that. Listen to what Paul says to the Philippians.
Philippians 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
It's notable that Tim does not deal with these verses at all. Paul says he desires to depart this life and be with Christ. What sense does it make, what hope is there, if what Paul really means is that he desires to die and fall asleep in a subterranean chamber somewhere below the Philippines? How is falling asleep and being unconscious far better than being alive and aware? How is to die and fall into an unconscious sleep gain?
43:19 We also locate the Garden of Eden in the Philippines, uh, below in the earth not up here on the surface.
1:21:34 Then there is the Garden of Eden that houses Yahuah's Holy of Holies on earth. Of course we didn't cover all of the many scriptures in the Garden of Eden there are tons but you know those. Um, but yes that is inside the earth the Hebrew word again is an enclosed garden. It's always been inside the earth and it never moved nor did the tree of life that's called kabbalah that's not bible. The bible says it's still there and that we'll have access to it on the after the day of judgment basically. And why Paul says when we die we are absent the body but in his presence. Why? How could that be? Well, because the chamber for the righteous is obviously next to the Garden of Eden. And what's in the Garden of Eden? The Holy of Holies of Yahuah on earth. Ha! Still in His presence. Exactly!
It's stupid beyond belief. Tim's doctrine of the afterlife offers NO HOPE to anyone. Sure, we will wake up after so many years to the final judgement and be with Jesus forever but so what? The hope we have is not that we will fall asleep at death for thousands or hundred of years but that, as Paul says, when we depart this life we shall be received into the very presence of Jesus Christ and live with him forever. It's as if Tim does not realize the great promise of the Gospel is to be united to Jesus Christ (Col 1:27; 1 Cor 3:16, 6:17, 19; 2 Peter 1:4; John 14:23, 17:22; Gal 2:19). Jesus Himself prays that the saints will be with Him in Heaven to behold his glory.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Truly to die is to gain eternity with Jesus Christ to whom we are united, not to sleep in some underground chamber next to the Philippines.
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