Timothy Jay Schwab of The God Culture bolsters his claims that the Philippines is the ancient source of Greek gold, as if there were no gold mines in ancient Greece, by claiming that ancient Greek armor has been found in Mindanao.
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| https://youtu.be/kWjFtcV_6Nc |
Beginning at 5:27 Timothy Schwab says:
"When we visited Butuan, Philippines in May we were actually able to see this Greek armor which was found in 2018 in the Philippines. The thing is these are indisputably Greek from the symbols and the structure and they are dated all the way back to 800 B.C. up to about 480 B.C. "
Now that is indeed rather interesting don't you think? Ancient Greek armor was found in Mindanao and dated between 800 and 480 B.C.? That would be a huge archaeological discovery seeing as Alexander did not even reach India until 326 B.C.! It would mean Greek soldiers marched or sailed to the Philippines BEFORE the Peloponnesian War. What can one do in the face of such overwhelming evidence that the Greeks were in the Philippines possibly only 300 years after the Trojan War? Question it and tear it apart of course.
I don't doubt that Timothy saw this armor. It obviously exists. Just look at the pictures. But where did he see it? A museum? Somewhere else? A search for news about this discovery leads to one and only one source which is a Youtube video posted by Kasaysayan Hunters on April 30th 2019.
As to the provenance of this discovery I think you will not be shocked to hear that these artifacts appeared suddenly out of nowhere. From the video:
"In 2018 locals in Mindanao were surprised to find armor of a type they have never seen before complete with helmets and weapons, soon sold in the Philippine antiquities market. We were fortunate enough to track down two sets of these amours which may give us important insight into our ancient past."
That is some stunning documentation right there. Unnamed locals found armor of a kind they had never seen before at an undisclosed location and quickly sold it on the Philippine antiquities market. What is this Philippine antiquities market anyway? Sounds like there is a thriving trade in antiquities on the black market in the Philippines.
The video offers no clue as to the origin of the armor. Rather than question its authenticity the narrator assumes it as a fact and goes on to describe all the details like the lions heads and anemones and gorgon heads carved into the armor as being genuinely Greek. They even expect us to believe that ancient Greeks wore helmets decorated with tokay geckos which are native to the Philippines and not Greece! Did the Greeks manufacture these helmets while in the Philippines?
The video offers no clue as to the origin of the armor. Rather than question its authenticity the narrator assumes it as a fact and goes on to describe all the details like the lions heads and anemones and gorgon heads carved into the armor as being genuinely Greek. They even expect us to believe that ancient Greeks wore helmets decorated with tokay geckos which are native to the Philippines and not Greece! Did the Greeks manufacture these helmets while in the Philippines?
The axe decorated with a lion's head we are told is a battle axe. Because when you want to kill someone in battle you definitely don't want an gigantic axe with a huge smooth, sharp edged double head. You want a short and stylish decorative piece.
Here is a picture of the set in full.
Lots of questions need answering.
Where and how was this armor found?
How many more sets were found and where are they now?
What other artifacts were found in the vicinity?
Did any archaeologists visit the site where this armor was found?
Why is the armor in relatively good condition?
Who dated the armor to between 800 - 400 B.C. and what method did they use?
Has Greece been notified of this discovery?
Has Greece been notified of this discovery?
Have any experts in Greek antiquities examined these artifacts?
What kind of tests have been run on this armor? Metallurgical?
What kind of tests have been run on this armor? Metallurgical?
Where are these artifacts now and why does it look they are sitting on a house porch?
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| Is this the "Philippine antiquities market?" |
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| Safe at home on the porch? |
As Indiana Jones would say:
Apparently Tim and the God Culture did not think to ask any of these questions but accept these pieces as genuine ancient Greek armor with zero proof except that they look like Greek armor. One thing to note is that the pieces lying on the table are of a darker color than in the photo showing the full set. That brings up a few more questions.
Where these pieces cleaned?
What were they cleaned with?
Were any kind of tests run on this armor before they were cleaned?
An image search for "Greek muscle cuirass" and "ancient Greek battle axe" gives results that look nothing like the armor above. There is armor with fake abs but not with lion heads and celestial wheels for nipples. Maybe such did exist but they are not coming up in any search online. And believe it or not those Greek battle axes have more of a Tibetan design than Grecian.
Where these pieces cleaned?
What were they cleaned with?
Were any kind of tests run on this armor before they were cleaned?
An image search for "Greek muscle cuirass" and "ancient Greek battle axe" gives results that look nothing like the armor above. There is armor with fake abs but not with lion heads and celestial wheels for nipples. Maybe such did exist but they are not coming up in any search online. And believe it or not those Greek battle axes have more of a Tibetan design than Grecian.
It's obvious that Tim does not believe these artifacts are genuine ancient Greek armor because they have been rigorously and thoroughly tested by experts and found to be so. He believes because it confirms his thesis that the Philippines is the ancient land of Ophir. He ignores what is so obviously gives away the fraud which is the tokay gecko on the helmet! But this would not be the first fact that Tim ignores.
To prove that the Greeks visited the Philippines Time produces a map, made in 1898 mind you, and points to two little islands labelled Chryse and Argyre and says this is Luzon and Mindanao! Pray tell what happened to the Visayas? You know, Negros, Iloilo, Bohol, Cebu, Leyte, and all the rest which lie in between Luzon and Mindanao! His map and his assertions cannot account for them. Here is the map he shows.
What is the source of this map anyway? Well if you're not paying attention you will miss the reference which is in VERY TINY PRINT in the bottom left corner. Let me show you.
Contrary to what the God Culture has claimed that is NOT 30 point font!
It should also be noted that Tim ignores all the scholarship regarding the identification of Chryse, Argyre, and the Golden Chersonesus which he encounters. In the book by Thomas Suarez which he cites the islands are identified as Malaya and Burma while the Golden Chersonesus is identified as the Malaya Peninsula. Has he read this book by Paul Wheatley?
To prove that the Greeks visited the Philippines Time produces a map, made in 1898 mind you, and points to two little islands labelled Chryse and Argyre and says this is Luzon and Mindanao! Pray tell what happened to the Visayas? You know, Negros, Iloilo, Bohol, Cebu, Leyte, and all the rest which lie in between Luzon and Mindanao! His map and his assertions cannot account for them. Here is the map he shows.
What is the source of this map anyway? Well if you're not paying attention you will miss the reference which is in VERY TINY PRINT in the bottom left corner. Let me show you.
Contrary to what the God Culture has claimed that is NOT 30 point font!
He even claims our sources are in very tiny print yet there are a 30 point font thus rather disingenuous as we have come to expect from this communist-style agitator. If you are viewing it on a cell phone screen perhaps it is small but plenty big when we create our slides and all right there to review which this writer has done with their confirmation bias.
https://philippinefails.blogspot.com/2020/02/the-god-culture-100-clues-philippines.html?showComment=1580698889368#c5406023618075777202I am viewing this on a 13-inch Macbook Pro and it's barely legible!! You have to zoom in to read it properly. It also doesn't help that there is a God Culture watermark superimposed over the map which they took from another source!! The source is atlantisjavasea.com. Specifically it is this page: https://atlantisjavasea.com/2015/09/26/taprobana-is-not-sri-lanka-nor-sumatera-but-kalimantan/. This is a web page dedicated to proving that Atlantis was located in Southeast Asia. Goodness knows how Tim ended up on this page but it should be noted that the map is an 1898 reconstruction of Mela by Konrad Miller. Mela himself never drew a map!
It should also be noted that Tim ignores all the scholarship regarding the identification of Chryse, Argyre, and the Golden Chersonesus which he encounters. In the book by Thomas Suarez which he cites the islands are identified as Malaya and Burma while the Golden Chersonesus is identified as the Malaya Peninsula. Has he read this book by Paul Wheatley?
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| https://www.fulcrum.org/concern/monographs/v692t6367 |
While the book is not available online the table of contents are and there is no hint of the Philippines. The subtitle also gives the game away. "Studies in the Historical Geography of the Malay Peninsula before A.D. 1500."
There is simply no credible evidence that the Philippines are the islands Tim says they are or that the Greeks were ever here. However there is an article that makes this assertion which Tim has likely come across.
Professor Austin Craig rejects the "romantic dream" of the Philippines being Ophir and Greeks trading in these islands. Instead He focuses his scholarship on written records and calls them "more reliable and valuable." On the other end of the spectrum Timothy Jay Schwab and the God Culture latch on to every kind of myth and legend and reject what scholars have to say in order to promulgate their doctrine. Men like Professor Austin Craig and Thomas Suarez do history while Tim and his bunch engage in pseudo-history.
Let's say these are real ancient Greek artifacts and not just fakes manufactured by locals in Mindanao. That would change so much of what we know about history. It would mean that the Greeks were either sailing around Africa long before Bartolomeu Dias did in 1488 or marching overland to the East hundreds of years before Alexander. In short it would be a groundbreaking archeological discovery and the area where the armor was found would certainly be excavated for more artifacts. But since the source of our knowledge of these antiques is only one Youtube video and there are no scholarly references to this find in reputable journals and no news reports either it is a safe bet that this ancient Greek armor is a modern-day fraud. The Philippines may be the ancient land of Gold according to The God Culture but today it is most certainly the land of frauds, cheats, and thieves.
There is simply no credible evidence that the Philippines are the islands Tim says they are or that the Greeks were ever here. However there is an article that makes this assertion which Tim has likely come across.
The Visayan Islands had earlier encounter with the Greek traders in 21 A.D. 2 (Felix Regalado and Quentin B. Franco, History of Panay (Ilo-ilo City Central Philippines University , 1973) ed., Eliza B. Grimo, p. 78.)
http://cebu-online.com/swum/html/exhibits.htmlOver at a message board about history this question of Greek traders in the Philippines was raised and the book cited as the source of this information, History of Panay, was located and the appropriate section quoted.
Professor Austin Craig, eminent student of Philippine history, said that the ancient traders of the Philippines exported sinamay cloth to Greece in A.D. 21 and Strabo, a Roman geographer of the First Century, referred to the commodity as "Ta see sika", or 'flex combed from the trees'. Manila hemp was well known to the Caesars of Rome, and sinamay cloth was once sold to the museum of Dresden, Germany for its antiquity.
https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/46708/did-greek-traders-visit-the-philippines-in-the-1st-century-adIf you cross check the reference from Professor Austin Craig which is found in "A Thousand Years of Philippine History Before the Arrival of the Spanish" you find this subject of ancient Greek contact with the Philippines on the very first page.
The Philippine History of which one is apt to think when that subject is mentioned covers hardly a fourth of the Islands' book-recorded history.
These records are not the romantic dream of a Paterno that under the name Ophir the Philippines with their gold enriched Solomon (l0th century B. C). They are solider ground than any plausible explanations that Manila hemp (abaka) was Strabo's (A. D. 21) "ta seerika," the cloth made of "a kind of flax combed from certain barks of trees." The shadowy identification of the Manilas with Ptolemy's Maniolas (c. A. D. 130) is not in their class. Nor, to accept them, is recourse needed to farfetched deductions like Zuniga's that the American Continent received Israel's ten lost tribes, and thence, through Easter Island, Magellan's archipelago was peopled. Their existence saves us from having to accept such references as how Sinbad the sailorman (Burton: The Arabian Nights, Night 538 et seq.) evidently made some of his voyages in this region, though it would not be uninteresting to note that the great Roc is a bird used in Moro ornament, the “ghoul" of the Thousand and One Nights is the Filipino Asuang and that the palm-covered island which was believed to be a colossal tortoise because it shook might well have been located where the Philippine maps indicate that earthquakes are most frequent.
The records herein after to be cited are for the most part of the prosaic kind, all the more reliable and valuable because they are inclined to be dry and matter-of-fact. They make no such demand upon imagination as Europe’s pioneer traveller's tales, for instance the- sixteenth century chart which depicted America as inhabited by headless people with eyes, nose and mouth located in the chest.
https://archive.org/stream/thousandyearsofp00crairich#page/n7/mode/2upRead that carefully and see that the authors of the "History of Panay" misrepresent what Austin Craig writes.
Professor Austin Craig rejects the "romantic dream" of the Philippines being Ophir and Greeks trading in these islands. Instead He focuses his scholarship on written records and calls them "more reliable and valuable." On the other end of the spectrum Timothy Jay Schwab and the God Culture latch on to every kind of myth and legend and reject what scholars have to say in order to promulgate their doctrine. Men like Professor Austin Craig and Thomas Suarez do history while Tim and his bunch engage in pseudo-history.
Let's say these are real ancient Greek artifacts and not just fakes manufactured by locals in Mindanao. That would change so much of what we know about history. It would mean that the Greeks were either sailing around Africa long before Bartolomeu Dias did in 1488 or marching overland to the East hundreds of years before Alexander. In short it would be a groundbreaking archeological discovery and the area where the armor was found would certainly be excavated for more artifacts. But since the source of our knowledge of these antiques is only one Youtube video and there are no scholarly references to this find in reputable journals and no news reports either it is a safe bet that this ancient Greek armor is a modern-day fraud. The Philippines may be the ancient land of Gold according to The God Culture but today it is most certainly the land of frauds, cheats, and thieves.
Nothing new here folks. "The God Culture" knows if they use religion and blow smoke up Filipino assholes, Filipinos will throw money at them. Something the Catholic church learned a few hundred years ago.
ReplyDeleteBut this post is less about religion and more about what are undoubtedly fake antiquities. This is just ridiculous. They don't even ask the big questions here as to its origin. Its fake history and God Culture is eating it up and spitting it out as truth.
DeleteMichael... Money? Someone's throwing money? To a group who would not even accept donations for 2 years after publishing on YouTube, 4 years into the project and we're about money? Really? A group who finally just set up a Patreon last year really for US OFWs who were asking and asking to support conferences which we could not do on our own and offer almost every one of these for free as a result, charge no fees, no registration, sell no products, take no offering and even buy lunch sometimes for as many as 1,000 people even? See, as you continue to form conclusions based on nothing just as you did earlier in the other post that we supposed cover no Bible yet we actually use hundreds of scriptures but this blog has not reviewed thus does not know, you will only prove yourself a fool. Our viewers know better and anyone viewing this nonsense for the first impression. Go watch the videos, read the thousands of comments including challenges and you will find the level of misrepresentation from this blog will make one vomit. We have not built an organization, no church, there is no membership so to speak... We teach, offer them free to the public. You do not have to agree or like what we teach on any topic. However, this comment of utter ignorance responding to a thread of utter ignorance is silly and illiterate just as this blog continues to be. Yah Bless.
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ReplyDeleteThe tokay gecko is not a Greek symbol.
DeleteIf Kaysayan Hunters interpreted the gecko wrongly, go tell them but you make the assumption it is the Asian one and do not prove it is but treat that as fact and you cannot. Yet, you expect readers to accept your point you do not prove out in the slightest as supposedly the bastion of truth when that is clearly not your interest. You are only a contrarian saying "nuh uh." It's childish. We do not have an issue in their claim it is a Greek symbol as the Gecko certainly was a part of that pantheon and no problem saying so in our YouTube video in 1 slide for a moment or so. We are fine with their assertion especially since the other symbols, which you ignore to hyper-focus on just one as is your way, are in fact Greek. Go debate that with that channel who released a video on "Greek Armor Found in the Philippines" which we confirmed the armor is really there in Butuan and looking at it, it certainly appears Greek but did we say we unearthed it, wrote a scientific journal entry on it and catalogued it as holy grail? Foolish. We have no need to challenge them on this as we have no problem with their video at this point as we went there and reviewed the armor ourselves and you haven't. You just make assumptions for things you do not wish to accept. We do not operate that way. We set our foundation in the origin of the story of Ophir which comes from the Bible and expanded into other disciples for further proof. If you do prove them wrong, let us know. We would be happy to do a video on that as well. Move on.
DeleteAs to the rest of this pontification, as he goes on and on about nothing as he continues to, remember, he admits he has only reviewed less than 1% of this position and none of the scriptural portion yet accuses us of not using scripture in ignorance. This guy is no expert nor can he even read scripture as he just came in trolling telling our viewer the Great Flood of Noah which destroyed life on earth other than the ark for land animals and man, was only 22' in height. But Noah had to build an ark to float in 22' of water to saver all that was on dry land because no animals lived at 23' and above. Really? No one would have been able to climb to the altitude of 23' to escape the Flood. No. This is a deceiver who does not believe the Bible and that is the foundation for our entire journey of research. He calls the history portion confirmation biased yet we are confirming at that point that there is support for what we already find the evidence trail leading. There is no research out there that does not contain bias and this blog is certainly confirmation biased only in content. However, over 8 million views now to our channel and most being Solomon's Gold Series content and thousands of comments do not agree with anything this guy says. He is trying to tear down because when you run a blog named PhilippinesFails, you obviously are willing to burn your own country down as anyone with such a title must hate their own. That is sad.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible says in Genesis 7:20 The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. That is only 22 feet! Do you believe what the Bible says or not? So who verified that this is actual Greek armor? Where were they found? Has the site been excavated for more antiques? You are not dealing with the issues here. You continue to insult me without talking about the issues I have raised.
DeleteIt says:
DeleteGenesis 7 King James Version (KJV)
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Does that mean the Flood was only 22'? Illiterate. You can't even read a passage in context. No surprise you can't even watch a series. We guess you have cliff notes for the Bible too??? Can you even simply read a chapter? Or how bout the next sentences:
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
All flesh died in 22' of water. Is that logic? No. Every living substance on the face of the earth, even plants, died from 22' of water? Really? Noah had to build an ark for 22' of water instead going up even a hill and staying in a cave?
The Book of Jubilees affirms and clarifies this narrative as it says really the same thing as Genesis:
5: 26. And the waters increased upon the earth
Fifteen cubits did the waters rise above all the high mountains
Oops! The, you have all those other pesky scriptures that confirm this.
Genesis 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
If the dove couldn't figure out how to land on the many thousands of mountains that are thousands of feet taller than 22', then, Noah selected a poor choice. You are reading once again and you do not know scripture. What ignorance. Like 22' would even cover the earth. Foolish.
See, you don't even believe the Bible and 2 Peter 3 which also confirms the Global flood destroying all life on the surface (yes, you would have to read most of the chapter as he makes a full point there not a sound bite) nailed your type of "willing ignorance" which you employ throughout this blog. He says this is 3 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts..." and they will deny the Flood just as you are denying the Biblical account in error. No surprise, that is the main purpose of this blog, error.
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ReplyDeleteThe Bible says the flood was 15 cubits. That is only 22 feet. Deal with it! And I have not personally attacked you Ana or Tim. I am dealing exclusively with your "Research". You say "check and confirm all things." I did and found your research to be lacking. That you admit I spent more time on the alleged Greek presence in the Philippines than you did just goes to show how lacking your research really is. You constantly post huge walls of text and do not deal with any of the issues I have raised about your research.
DeleteIt says:
DeleteGenesis 7 King James Version (KJV)
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Does that mean the Flood was only 22'? Illiterate. You can't even read a passage in context. No surprise you can't even watch a series. We guess you have cliff notes for the Bible too??? Can you even simply read a chapter? Or how bout the next sentences:
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
All flesh died in 22' of water. Is that logic? No. Every living substance on the face of the earth, even plants, died from 22' of water? Really? Noah had to build an ark for 22' of water instead going up even a hill and staying in a cave?
The Book of Jubilees affirms and clarifies this narrative as it says really the same thing as Genesis:
5: 26. And the waters increased upon the earth
Fifteen cubits did the waters rise above all the high mountains
Oops! The, you have all those other pesky scriptures that confirm this.
Genesis 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
If the dove couldn't figure out how to land on the many thousands of mountains that are thousands of feet taller than 22', then, Noah selected a poor choice. You are reading once again and you do not know scripture. What ignorance. Like 22' would even cover the earth. Foolish.
See, you don't even believe the Bible and 2 Peter 3 which also confirms the Global flood destroying all life on the surface (yes, you would have to read most of the chapter as he makes a full point there not a sound bite) nailed your type of "willing ignorance" which you employ throughout this blog. He says this is 3 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts..." and they will deny the Flood just as you are denying the Biblical account in error. No surprise, that is the main purpose of this blog, error.
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DeleteHere you go writing a wall of text and saying absolutely nothing. More name calling and no dealing with the issue which is that there is no evidence ancient Greeks visited these islands. I have no idea why you reject what the Bible says when you claim to believe it. It says the flood was 15 cubits high. That is only 22 feet! Even the Book of Jubilees says it was 15 cubits high which is 22 feet! Mt. Everest is 29,000 feet high. At that level one has to use an oxygen tank to breathe and in fact Mt. Everest is now littered with empty oxygen tanks from all the climbers.
DeleteI think the problem with you is that you are taking this personal. This blog entry is not a personal attack against you Ana or Tim. What is being assailed is your research which is rather shoddy. You liked the armor and it was good enough to use in a youtube video? No you didn't just like it. Greek armor being found in Mindanao is your proof that the Greeks were here and that the Philippines is their ancient source of gold. You already admitted I spent more time on it than you which means you did not even bother to research this armor or the presence of Greeks in the Philippines in ancient time. Can you even tell us where the armor was found?
It says:
DeleteGenesis 7 King James Version (KJV)
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Does that mean the Flood was only 22'? Illiterate. You can't even read a passage in context. No surprise you can't even watch a series. We guess you have cliff notes for the Bible too??? Can you even simply read a chapter? Or how bout the next sentences:
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
All flesh died in 22' of water. Is that logic? No. Every living substance on the face of the earth, even plants, died from 22' of water? Really? Noah had to build an ark for 22' of water instead going up even a hill and staying in a cave?
The Book of Jubilees affirms and clarifies this narrative as it says really the same thing as Genesis:
5: 26. And the waters increased upon the earth
Fifteen cubits did the waters rise above all the high mountains
Oops! The, you have all those other pesky scriptures that confirm this.
Genesis 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
If the dove couldn't figure out how to land on the many thousands of mountains that are thousands of feet taller than 22', then, Noah selected a poor choice. You are reading once again and you do not know scripture. What ignorance. Like 22' would even cover the earth. Foolish.
See, you don't even believe the Bible and 2 Peter 3 which also confirms the Global flood destroying all life on the surface (yes, you would have to read most of the chapter as he makes a full point there not a sound bite) nailed your type of "willing ignorance" which you employ throughout this blog. He says this is 3 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts..." and they will deny the Flood just as you are denying the Biblical account in error. No surprise, that is the main purpose of this blog, error.
You attacked us. Regarding the ark. You came to our Facebook with this point pointing to your blog this morning. We did not come to you with this. You brought it up with no research once again but an ignorant assumption even hacking scripture even.
ReplyDeleteYou are not reading. Here is Jubilees not saying what you said:
Jubilees 5:26. And the waters increased upon the earth
Fifteen cubits did the waters rise above all the high mountains
The water rising 15 cubits above the high mountains cannot be accomplished in 22' of water total. It means and so does Genesis, the waters were 15 cubits above the tallest mountain. The dove would have had plenty of places to set it's foot if the waters were only 22' and 22' would not even fill the whole earth with water even. Noah would not have needed to build an ark as he and the animals could simply climb to 23' or higher and many animals live higher than 22' in elevation anyway. It certainly would not have been an issue nor such a great calamity that all with the breath of life would die. More so, the Bible says you are wrong multiple times. Yet you came to our Facebook with this point thinking you had a gotcha but you do not. You are not reading nor reviewing that which you condemn in ignorance. You are agitating. That is all.
Commenting on your Facebook post is not attacking you. Checking up on your research and finding out its not up to snuff is not attacking you. You are taking this way too personally. If you don't want to comment about anything I actually wrote in this blog post about Greeks and the Golden Chersonse or that labeling those two islands as Luzon and Mindanao does not account for the Visays then fine. Don't deal with it.
DeleteBTW the book of Jubilees is not scripture nor is it included in the list of any canons of any church father or used in their writings. I have the 38 volume ECF set sitting on my shelf so I say that having read the Church Fathers myself. It was a book used by the Essenes and never received by the church as scripture excluding the Ethiopian church. You should read a book about the formation of the canon called "The Biblical Canon" by Lee McDonald. He discusses Jubilees and its status.
DeleteThere are many such scholars who condemn Jubilees without reading it nor even bothering with it's continued history as canon, scripture and inspired yet it has such. We use it for history and geography in this series and as copies are dated to at least 200 or so BC (note they are copies not the original), it is good for that and serves as confirmation of Genesis which does not have such in some arenas. You could find plenty of scholars who have never done research on this book yet condemn it but we prove they have not truly read it nor know it's history. We deal with it with head on in Testing the Book of Jubilees where we find John, Peter, Paul and Luke quoting significant doctrine from the Book of Jubilees that does not appear to derive from the Old Testament. That is significant. This is why the early church fathers used it as scripture until censored by the Catholic Church following Pharisee doctrine and it was the #6 most found scroll in Qumran and in the same scroll jar as Genesis alone even. Qumran quotes Jubilees not just as scripture but for law or Torah and since it was written by Moses, it would be if proven scripture. This is the Zadokite, Levite Priests of Aaron including John the Baptist, the Great Prophet who were specifically the teachers and keepers of scripture in a library which was found in 1947 right next their compound. The book tracks extremely well with Genesis and every one of their supposed objections is based on either not reading it or a false paradigm such as Essenses creating it yet they NEVER lived in Qumran. Qumran was Bethabara/Betharabah where Jesus was baptized according to Joshua and even a proper reading of the Gospels reveals that with little effort. John the Baptist lived there in the Wilderness of Judaea with Zadok Priests, his family. There is no writing in the DSS that identifies them as an Kabbalistic Essene cult but hundreds of references to their being Priests of Levi descending from Aaron and this according to Rachel Elior of Hebrew University who is very involved in the DSS. The writings there all represent a Zadokite priestly lineage not one of Essenes. In fact, the Essene Find as it is called in archaeology is found 25 miles South of Ein Gedi right where Pliny (the geographer) places the Essenes on the West Coast of the Dead Sea ABOVE Ein Gedi. Everyone who has ever been to or seen pictures of that area knows there are mountains right on the coast of the Dead Sea and above Ein Gedi would be in the mountains there right where they found "The Essene Find." Imagine that. If somehow this geographer was talking about North instead of above which would be quite the odd nomenclature for him to use, then there are other towns North of Ein Gedi in the 25 miles until one reaches to Qumran even according to Joshua's geography. The Zadokite Priests NEVER refer to themselves as Essenses, ever. The word Essene is Egyptian for secret and it was a secret cult of Kabbalists likely of Egyptian origin who may have entered Israel during the Exodus according to history which says there were Hyksos who did. They may well be the ones whom Jeremiah rebukes in fact but the word Essene is never used in scripture not the DSS. Regardless, if they were Essenes, it would be there and they wouldn't calling themselves Zadokite sons of Aaron.
DeleteWe know the Priests were chased out of the Temple by the Hasmoneans who replaced them and the DSS calls the Hasmoneans and really Pharisees the "sons of darkness." However, some really ignorant scholars on the topic claiming to be experts actually say a Pharisee must have written the Book of Jubilees because of the date but that's a copy not the original writing just as all scripture is that we have found. Any scholar forgetting the scribal tradition of copying scrolls is not behaving scholarly. However, that community in Qumran would never have a writing of the sons of darkness and it was against Pharisee doctrine to write in that period (Again, Elior said so as their doctrines were only to be passed orally at that time) not to mention Jubilees condemns the Pharisee calendar and does not fit their laws and the whole geography of Chapter 8 has several lost placenames for known areas in that time which a Pharisee would not have used. What you seem to miss is there are false paradigms out there everywhere. The Synagogue of Satan was pinpointed by Messiah 2000 years ago and the church generally don't even know who that is. They lost them. They lost the name of God. And, they lost the Land of Gold. This synagogue is described in Rev 2:9 and 3:9 that they say they are Jews and are not but do lie. They even changed the Hebrew and Greek equivalent Yahudim to a completely non-Hebrew word Jew which originates in Ashkenazi Jewry as they called themselves Jude or Judi which works in their Yiddish which has a J but not ancient Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Latin nor Old French, Old German nor Old English thus never a Bible word. In essence they remove the name of God Yahu from the name of His people. The same are in charge of the DSS and the narrative is not difficult to unfold if you read those scholars but then go and look at the data yourself. Read the DSS. There's nothing scary in there. When they found the Qumran scrolls, literally, the voice in the wilderness cried out yet again. See, we now have the Bible. The library or Bible of John the Baptist, the Great Prophet. It proves the Catholic Church kept most of the books in the OT as all but 1 was found in Qumran but censored and added to it with no such authority to overrule the Great Prophet. For instance Esther is not found in the DSS and no surprise as it never mentions the name of God nor gives Him credit nor even prays to Him in the narrative. It is really just a Jewish princess who uses sex to gain power which she uses to save her people. Sounds more like Zionism not Bible and no wonder it was not found in Qumran. However, Jubilees especially vets extremely well in a parallel reading with Genesis and your scholar is clueless. Feel free to watch but no cliff notes for that one.
DeleteWe cited NOTHING erroneously as you claim in error. We did not make up quotes. Finally, this is research from years ago so we were waiting to get to the archives. You are very confused and confusing on this. That slide on Chryse has 2 sources not 1 and we'll take credit for not offering a complete source on the Periplus in which we do NOT get that from Suarez but it is a separate reference which we even treat so in commentary. The Suarez quote is ONLY for directions East of India and that is all we use it for, all that is in quotes for him and all he actually knew beyond speculation as Charles Nowell points out. We do not use that for The Periplus quote below it and that is why we place them in 2 separate blocks and not together. The Periplus is separate in scope. That comes from The Perpilus according to our source below WORD FOR WORD in quotes. Again, that frame is only meant to provide directions toward the Far East as neither knew anymore than that or they would have produce Ophir yet only Magellan did. Then, the next frame is a map from Mela which is a good map and source which you can easily verify. Here's our source at the bottom and notice the wording is the same as what we placed in quotes. Everything vetted just fine and we chose to run an accurate quote whether it matches the translation in the book you are quoting or not. The book you cite that portion from is not something we used for that and obviously it translates differently which is no matter because they both say Ophir is in the Far East beyond India which is really the point and all we gleaned from those. We originally saw this on a blogpost kinda like yours which according to you must not be credible thus not sure why you are even doing this. We corroborated it with this and it matched:
ReplyDeletePart 63: https://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/periplus/periplus.html
"the last part of the inhabited world toward the east, under the rising sun itself;”
“it is called Chryse" We added NOT in quotes thus our words expressed appropriately and then in quotes "This(China)" which brought "silk" to India. Every word of our quote in quotes is accurate though a different translation than the book you are quoting which we did not use for that portion. There are numerous books on this but none who found Ophir so to treat them as complete fact will lead to ignorance. We also have another translation similar but not exact but it does not say Peninsula but refers to these as isles many times though it assumes Peninsula is ok. We do not nor does history and it all has to match the Bible.
Sorry if that was not clear and we will separate the 2 slides and expand from Charles Nowell who clarifies Josephus, Ptolemy and those in their times, did not know where Chryse was specifically just in region and he basically frames the thinking began with East Africa and that was wrong, then it progressed to the Malay Peninsula and that was wrong. Only Magellan found Ophir and everyone else is speculation. There is no evidence beyond that that can trump Magellan. This is the logical basis for our thinking that we can glean directions from those guys but not firm locations nor do we need to. They tried but again, they did not find Ophir. The Portuguese did not rise up with the claim of Ophir when Malaysia and Indonesia became their territories and the locals in the Malay Peninsula and even it's Tourism Dept and Government to this day still call what Britain renamed as Mt. Ophir in 1801 as it's true name Gunung Ledang not Mt. Ophir. They know better. However, these sourcs knew Chryse was in the Far East, East of but not India, not Yemen and Not Ethiopia which are the 3 big claims really. Even Britain backed off Malaysia as Ophir and went with India mostly. They thought it Malaysia but understand to the Western world there was no Philippine separate archipelago. They lumped it in with Malaysia and even India as it was part of the Indies in their mindset. We have other sources as well but for 1 slide in which we only glean East of India, not a trail worthy of time.
ReplyDeleteAfter your challenges, we had already reviewed most sources for our book project and frankly, we feel extremely good about the content of this channel. You should too because you have actually found nothing awry with the manner in which we support our conclusions and certainly you have not found anything that is an issue. You do not prove PH Gold was not found in Egypt but corroborate as we did with multiple sources of the same. You did not prove the armor was not Greek especially since you ignored all the symbols to focus on the gecko in which the Greek’s most certainly had an “askalabotes” or gecko in their pantheon as well and all the other symbols certainly appear Greek. We like that and will leave it in. We like the PH Gold in Egypt and will leave it in as well. This point is a non-point as well and your first blog said absolutely nothing as you never watched a video with any evidence at all. Now you have and you find… nothing. Good news. You can start your own YouTube and there, you get to decide the content but not here. Yah Bless.
1. This blog is challenged to read. The Periplus is not only represented accurately in our video but it is very clear that he has not read it. We cover that and here are other sources with directions to Chryse that agree as well as more maps. Here is our response:
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/ffA5sWIdXI4
2. What fraud to take Mela's map from 43 AD reconstructed and represent that as ours. Only a fool would suggest that cartographers knew the shape of the Philippines in 43 A.D. Stupid!
1492 MAP Shows CHRYSE/Ophir as Luzon & ARGYRE/Tarshish a Mindanao.
https://youtu.be/WLYZaHIb0O8
3. This blog ignorantly and irresponsibly spouts most of what it asserts. However, 1 truly ignorant thing is saying the Lequios did not come from the Philippines. He claims to be scholarly yet he does not know that Pigafetta's Journal identifies them with Luzon. He is no scholar. Then, Magellan calls them "Tarsis" and "Ofir." We get it he wants the Philippines to Fail. Well it will not. It will rise. Here is that video on the Lequios of Luzon:
https://youtu.be/5QF9FGRjhhA
Finally, this guy can't disprove our conclusions and he attempts to nitpick at sources yet that has failed as we use them accurately and he is disproven, the one he said was out of print is also not out of print and the issue he has with someone else's claim of armor which we still support as fine to spend 45 seconds on in 1 slide. Then, he fraudulently and libelously claims we are dishonest based on misquoting and misrepresenting as even in the quote that says we do not mention Suarez shows we did not mention Suarez. Duh! We do not care that he wants to hate and this is our last comment here because this blog is useless trash. However, if you are following David and his libelous bluster of dishonest fraud, well, enjoy communist propaganda because that is the tactic being employed here. No thank you. This is disproven and clearly libel by any standard of measure. Debate settled. PhilippineFailsBlog Fails the Philippines.
Excellent debunking of yet another Tallano-type disinformation project. Keep it up.
ReplyDeleteTalleano? Really Bob? Your ignorance is truly profound. The God Culture lays down a postion over about 70 or so videos packed with mega-evidence. One can attempt to disagree with a point here are there but you can't because you haven't even reviewed our position yet actually have the audacity to comment in ignorance. Don't behave as a fool.
DeleteThen stop youtube videos, which are merely claims, write a paper and get it peer-reviewed by historians and publish in a respected journal like Philippine Studies. I challenge you. Until you do you are nothing more than another Tallano. End of.
DeleteTalleano makes claims, we prove. You are a fool to suggest such in ignorance without reviewing our very extensive case. We smartly documented our journey on YouTube and yes, we are about to publish a book and we have consensus but we could care less about those who lost the land of gold in the first place. I mean I get losing an earring, even a watch, but you hold up the discipline that lost the entire land of gold as the experts as to how to find it. Talk about nonsense. Our book is coming very soon. In the final stages as we write this. Will you read it or continue to comment is ignorance as you have thus far? Are you just a fool or are you capable of learning? We shall see.
DeleteName a real historian or archaelogist who has confirmed your claims. Name a single reputable journal thatbhas published them. You are, somply a fraud and a cultist. That is why you van only.post self-made youtube videos and self-publish books. Bye.
DeleteWe have proven over and over from his own words and deeds, this is a libelous, abusive, harassing, lying, fraud who offers nothing of value. He only knows how to corrupt and fraud and we have proven that with quote after quote, map after map, scripture after scripture… This shows how pathetic he is and he has identified his foundation now, we have it. David Roxas of PhilippineFails hates God in his own words. He blames him for the state of the Philippines instead of looking at how the Filipino people have lost covenant relationship which we are working to restore. Yet, he mischaracterizes and misrepresents yet claims he cares but he hates the Philippines and he is a racist, bigot who hates Filipinos and Americans. Seems he just hates everyone but this is common with those whose father is the devil. We live in the End Times when evil is painted as good and good as evil and this persecution is welcomed as it demonstrates we are in the Will of Yahuah. This fraud is in the will of his father, satan. They are liars incapable of truth, haters oblivious to love, demonizers who are the ones with demons, accusers yet guilty themselves… these are hypocrites and yes, the Philippines is not perfect but mostly because of the influence of these Jesuit and Communist-style agitators… They read scripture and then ignore it reframing it in fragments to manipulate to their Pharisee leaven which this fraud represents. They read history and outright lie and commit fraud to reframe it and cover it up but no longer. They are exposed. David Roxas of PhilippineFails has failed the Philippines.
ReplyDeleteI've studied Greek culture at the graduate level and this armor is laughably fake and artificially distressed to a very poor degree. The gecko is borderline laughable. Greek armor and weaponry did NOT look like this.
ReplyDeleteI remain skeptic about this claim that the Philippines is the land of Ophir... I even saw some people claiming that it is true. I am not against the Bible nor am I against Christianity, but to use such tactics for cashgrab truly makes me feel sick. maybe we can look at it another way around... remove the impossible until what remains may produce the probable truth. I hope the Philippines would one day wake up from religiosity and start understanding truth (not just biblical, or historical, but also our Identity as a people.) truth be told, some Filipinos look for external validation from the world yet we can never truly progress if we keep seeking the validation from other nations
ReplyDelete